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reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!
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chrisnash
Posted 2006-08-15 3:23 AM (#13726)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!



Developer

Posts: 746
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Location: England

Hi Everyone,

Another step closer to beta; reViSIT v0.89.4, features ...

  • A New Help System
    Though far from complete, this version of reViSiT gives a taste of what is to come. Currently a fair amount of the Pattern Editor help is complete - move the cursor around and press F1 for details. In the effect column, press F1 to get a list of possible effects, or if you have already entered an effect, pressing F1 will tell you all about it. Lists of keyboard shortcuts (Shift-F1) are also available for most editor pages. These two systems are designed to be accessible without resorting to the mouse, but there is still the occassional problems to solve in some hosts. Please do report any problems, though. Through the Help Bar (Ctrl-F1), you'll be able to read all about reViSiT, it's history, usage and future, though this is largely still under construction.
  • Sample/Instrument List Audition Mode
    Now, anywhere in the Sample and Instrument Lists, you can hold down the Ctrl Key to activate Audition Mode. Keeping Ctrl pressed, you can then play the current instrument and thus audition different settings as you edit them.
  • Several bug fixes and minor changes
    The mouse was 'on the blink' in .3, but is now fixed, as are a couple of MIDI bugs (hopefully) and the odd crash when selecting particular samples or instruments. A number of interface refinements are also included.

Check the readme.txt or release notes, for details of all the changes and please do report back with any comments, queries or problems you might have.

If you have already applied to the Alpha programme, you will have an email containing the details of the download. If you haven't applied, go to http://www.nashnet.co.uk/english/revisit/download.htm and sign up for the download.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to pose them on the forum - or to me directly by email, via revisit@nashnet.co.uk. For more information, see the reViSiT website @ http://revisit.nashnet.co.uk.

All the best,
Chris


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CS_TBL
Posted 2006-08-27 11:11 AM (#13727 - in reply to #13726)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!



Expert

Posts: 512
500
Location: Netherlands
Quite an older bug already: but move the playback 'overview' in the playscreen (F5) up and down while playing, you'll notice that the volume output indicators mess up. (and the pan numbers)

The MIDI stuff is improved but not perfect yet, still the odd hanging note here and there.. but far less than in the previous release.

oh, and it's not really a bug: but uhm.. that new startup screen.. can there be a checkbox somewhere that says: "don't show a startupscreen on startup" ? :P

oh, and a request: IT2 has this great "sort patterns" function in the patternlist (ALT-R iirc), this takes the patterns and sorts them so that they're chronologically presented again, rather than messed up.
Uhm.. you know, like: if this is your pattern-order: 00 04 01 01 02 04 03 05, then after sorting, it'll be: 00 01 02 02 03 01 04 05 06 .. (I think, all done from the head). Because in a way you want your 'song' to be presented from A-Z while working with it, I usually never went into the patter-order screen of IT2, other than laying a chronological 000..somenumber list, OR to insert some patterns. After inserting I always sorted them, so I could logically work with it in the pattern editor.

<OT>
After some week of tears and anger I returned to cubase, and I stick to 10 halions max, any more softsynths added (such as vsampler3) results in a cubase error, so I'll try to cramp everything into the 160 possible midichannels I have. (this number sounds huge, I know :P) Today I'll continue with my swashbuckling piraty tune after adding the choirs, harpsichord and accordeon to the timpani-halion.. :P (so, that'll be the drill, adding instruments to other "dedicated" halions where I had some unused channels left)
Actually I'm all quite disappointed in this whole affair, it's all buggy and stupid, and other apps are not quite handy either. Either something bugs, something regarding handyness and functionality is missing or somethings works just in a completely ridiculous way.
Still, no matter how limited IT2 is by today's standards, you gotta admire its rocksolid'ness and operational speed/logic, even today!
</OT>

Ah, I tried to shorten a pattern (its length, ctrl F2) while it was playing the tune on the position that was about to go out. That little icon in the VSTi list (square under a line) was on suddenly, shutting if off fixed it.. anyway, it's only a small annoyance (it didn't really crash orso), but perhaps it could be ironed out..(read: made foolproof)?



Musictechnology-bachelor degree in Composing, Producing, Sounddesign, Software - composer for film/tv/theatre/games/commercials - imdb registered - IT2 guru - MSX guru - sounddesign guru
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CS_TBL
Posted 2006-08-31 12:57 PM (#13728 - in reply to #13727)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!



Expert

Posts: 512
500
Location: Netherlands
are you on holiday or what? :P

Anyway, I've a serious note-hanging issue here in a particular pattern, and it might have anything to do with having a lot of notes on the same row.. It's classic'esque piece, and there's this unison passage with the whole orchestra (about 16 notes on a row, think Holst's Uranus from The Planets). And, hands-down, everytime I play that pattern one or more notes aren't note-off'd. Perhaps this info brings you closer to a bugfix? In many cases it's one of the last notes in the row that keeps going on, but often enough also the first ones.. I tried to slightly move them around with the SDx command so that they'd be -MIDI speaking- not really on the same line, that seems to help a bit but I need to test it with this trick for a while to say whether this is a permanent solution, apart from that, there's only so much off-the-grid one can apply without getting a mess.



Musictechnology-bachelor degree in Composing, Producing, Sounddesign, Software - composer for film/tv/theatre/games/commercials - imdb registered - IT2 guru - MSX guru - sounddesign guru
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chrisnash
Posted 2006-08-31 3:34 PM (#13729 - in reply to #13728)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!



Developer

Posts: 746
50010010025
Location: England

> are you on holiday or what? :P

No. Just busy staying alive, doing stuff that pays the bills. :P

> Holst's Uranus from The Planets

Spooky - I just (this minute) finished listening to Karajan's version.

> Perhaps this info brings you closer to a bugfix?

Talk is cheap. I need the file, so that I can reproduce the problem and dive into the code with the debugger. Can you send it to me by email (revisit at nashnet.co.uk)?

I'll look into the other things you mentioned, but at the moment - as regards reViSiT - all my time is taken up with converting the pattern editor from bitmap fonts to TrueType fonts. Not easy to do it properly (i.e. without maxing out the CPU or memory).

Chris


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CS_TBL
Posted 2006-08-31 9:30 PM (#13730 - in reply to #13729)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!



Expert

Posts: 512
500
Location: Netherlands
hm.. how do you figure 'send it' ? it's just note-data, no revisit instruments involved. I just ran into another unison part again, same stuff happened.. I'm quite sure (well, more than an average amount of percentages :P ) that the bug is related to a certain maximum notes on one row. You could easily try that yourself.. just put some on a row and play!



Musictechnology-bachelor degree in Composing, Producing, Sounddesign, Software - composer for film/tv/theatre/games/commercials - imdb registered - IT2 guru - MSX guru - sounddesign guru
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chrisnash
Posted 2006-09-01 2:24 PM (#13731 - in reply to #13730)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!



Developer

Posts: 746
50010010025
Location: England

It's easy for you to say that it looks like too many simultaneous notes are causing the problem, but it's far from an established fact, and I prefer to have all the details to hand when tackling a problem. There may be a specific combination that is causing the break down. On a single row alone there are over 500,000,000,000 possible combinations, so instead of me choosing one at random and hoping it exhibits your problem, I'd rather you sent me a combination that is proved to be faulty. Furthermore, there are instruments involved - it's samples you are not using - and thus it'd be useful for me to inspect the configuration you are using anyway.

Send me the file and tell me which VSTi's you're using. Also:

Is the problem only occuring on specific VSTi's, or just Halion?
Do the problems appear at the same point? For example, is it always the same note that's cut, or does it appear random?

Chris


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CS_TBL
Posted 2006-09-13 3:48 PM (#13732 - in reply to #13731)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!



Expert

Posts: 512
500
Location: Netherlands
from the taskmanager:

tons o' samples loaded in various halions

before loading revisit
cubase3.exe: 1471MB

after loading revisit and a 3-pattern tune:
cubase3.exe: 1514MB

that's uhm.. a whopping 43MB for revisit.. is that right??



Musictechnology-bachelor degree in Composing, Producing, Sounddesign, Software - composer for film/tv/theatre/games/commercials - imdb registered - IT2 guru - MSX guru - sounddesign guru
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Anonymous
Posted 2006-09-13 5:04 PM (#13733 - in reply to #13732)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!


Yes. To keep the graphics drawing overhead low, all pattern graphics are buffered in memory for quick retrieval (so that reViSiT only has to draw what has changed). The pattern, for example, is one big offscreen bitmap. The math:

64 tracks * 13 characters per track * 8 x 8 pixels per character * up to 256 rows =  6656 x 2048 pixels = 52 megabytes.

VST doesn't easily support anything other than 32-bit (4 byte) bitmaps, otherwise I could decrease it to 13mb.

Whilst implementing the pattern follow and post/pre pattern preview, even more memory is required and VST just gives up, so I'm in the midst of designing a new system for v0.89.5. It uses TrueType fonts instead of bitmap fonts, but there will still be an offscreen bitmap. Since TTF drawing is so much slower than bitmapping, the offscreen bitmap is even more critical - but since TTF characters can be larger than 8x8, it'll get even bigger. Too big, as it happens. So I have to work out some compromise between drawing performance and memory usage. It's not easy, but you shouldn't worry about such memory usage - especially when it's less than 3% of your total usage anyway.

Chris


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CS_TBL
Posted 2006-09-15 12:19 AM (#13734 - in reply to #13733)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!



Expert

Posts: 512
500
Location: Netherlands
Playback is not tight.. is this a known issue? I'm trying some Linn VSTi here, and running 2 A1 instances... nothing shocking (no Halions or anything), just ye olde Italo bassline+drums orso :P ... anyway, even a deaf can hear it's far from tight! Some delays are close to the SD1 command!



Musictechnology-bachelor degree in Composing, Producing, Sounddesign, Software - composer for film/tv/theatre/games/commercials - imdb registered - IT2 guru - MSX guru - sounddesign guru
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chrisnash
Posted 2006-09-15 1:00 PM (#13735 - in reply to #13734)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!



Developer

Posts: 746
50010010025
Location: England

Again, this could be a VSTi issue. If playback is not "tight", I'm sure someone else would have mentioned it by now - it's a bit of glaring issue to go unnoticed by so many people, don't you think? It would mean that few MODs, ITs, S3Ms or XMs would sound right and I haven't noticed anything. I suggest you look to your configuration and try other VSTi's to see if the problem persists.

If it does, send me the file and I will check it. Also, I note that you have still not sent the file I asked for earlier. If you don't, the problem will not be addressed.

Chris


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CS_TBL
Posted 2006-09-15 1:14 PM (#13736 - in reply to #13735)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!



Expert

Posts: 512
500
Location: Netherlands
yes.. right after that first file I ceized composing and started to try kontakt, which included eons of converting. I'll try to minimize the timing thing this afternoon orso so it's sendable. The earlier thing, will have a look at it as well, I'm not however going to send tenths of gigabytes of data. :P



Musictechnology-bachelor degree in Composing, Producing, Sounddesign, Software - composer for film/tv/theatre/games/commercials - imdb registered - IT2 guru - MSX guru - sounddesign guru
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Anonymous
Posted 2006-09-15 1:36 PM (#13737 - in reply to #13736)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!


Easiest (at least initially) is if you open the two modules with WinZIP (or similar) and send me the file "Module.xml" from each - renaming them accordingly. This includes all the pattern, sample and instrument data but not the waveforms.

Chris


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CS_TBL
Posted 2006-09-15 9:44 PM (#13738 - in reply to #13737)
Subject: reViSiT v0.89.4 update released!



Expert

Posts: 512
500
Location: Netherlands
*update*

Part of the problem found; loopbe30 isn't the sharpest one. Last weeks I made a habit of using only loopbe30 devices, not the internal vst host. The loopbe30 result is truly terrible. However, while I don't claim to have an atomic-precision clock in my head, even the internal one doesn't appear to be as atomic as it could be. And afaics, the loopbe30 tightness doesn't improve when rendering audio! The testtune is really not worth mentioning, one Linn plugin (JM-1) and a track with nothing by hihats.



Musictechnology-bachelor degree in Composing, Producing, Sounddesign, Software - composer for film/tv/theatre/games/commercials - imdb registered - IT2 guru - MSX guru - sounddesign guru
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